Question regarding the Uhthoff phenomenon

[karenin08]

Wanted to ask a brief question.
I know Uhthoff's phenomenon is not present in all people with MS but in those where it's present is it always so clear cut to feel?
I regularly go to sauna for 3 years but I have always preferred the feeling of cold water after I get out of the sauna and start swimming in the swimming pool in the same aquatic complex.
After I have read about this phenomenon I developed the feeling of transient numbness and general feeling of mild discomfort while in the sauna. I can stay in there even 15 min but after I get out I feel drained of energy.
But it is so mild I cannot know for sure if I am imagining it or it's actually this phenomenon.
Is this phenomenon so clear cut in MS'ers so that you know immediately something it's not right or can you wonder if you are imagining it?

Thank you king people.
I swear that if I do not have MS and my numbness is due to back problems and nothing serious or irreversible I will get drunk and start believing GOD exists. I will start being a good person!!!

Friday I go to a new neurologist for VEP. I will tell all my symptoms and maybe this time this guy won't just shrug his shoulders telling me no brain and spine lesions means no MS.

[Seasha]

It is not a phenomenon that you would feel drained or fatigued after a sauna. Many people without MS can feel this way too. It is most commonly associated with dehydration (think sweating) and it's always advisable to drink plenty of water before, during and after.

I went for many, many years not being affected by the heat of the day or by taking warm baths and saunas, but as I age, along with having MS for 30 years, it now affects me greatly.

Good luck on Friday with the VEP. Keep us informed!

[KoKo]

Wanted to ask a brief question.
I know Uhthoff's phenomenon is not present in all people with MS but in those where it's present is it always so clear cut to feel?
I regularly go to sauna for 3 years but I have always preferred the feeling of cold water after I get out of the sauna and start swimming in the swimming pool in the same aquatic complex.
After I have read about this phenomenon I developed the feeling of transient numbness and general feeling of mild discomfort while in the sauna. I can stay in there even 15 min but after I get out I feel drained of energy.
But it is so mild I cannot know for sure if I am imagining it or it's actually this phenomenon.
Is this phenomenon so clear cut in MS'ers so that you know immediately something it's not right or can you wonder if you are imagining it?

Thank you king people.
I swear that if I do not have MS and my numbness is due to back problems and nothing serious or irreversible I will get drunk and start believing GOD exists. I will start being a good person!!!

Friday I go to a new neurologist for VEP. I will tell all my symptoms and maybe this time this guy won't just shrug his shoulders telling me no brain and spine lesions means no MS.

Robert ~

Does your heat sensitivity only appear from being in the sauna?

Heat intolerance was an early symptom for me, but that could be because I have progressive MS.

Increased symptoms from warming up occurred very early on for me, for instance: during a hot shower, just being outside in the warm sunshine, after warming up during a bike ride or playing tennis, while mowing the lawn at my Mom's, etc.

Cooling down always reduced or removed the symptoms.

Take Care

[karenin08]

Thank you for the kind responses.

Yes, currently it only appears there. It manifest as a transient subtle numbness/weakness/fatigue that goes away after 1-2 mins of exiting the sauna but I have no idea if the fact that I know about this phenomenon has affected the way I perceived what happens to me in that sauna.

I will ask the neurologist to see what he says.

After my VEP on Friday I have an appointment at one of the demyelinating disease neurologist (sort of like MS specialist I think) and if she can explain what's up with the 5% of people with MS with normal MRI's and exclude me from that small percentage at least it's a step forward into finding the root of all these chronic progressive neurological symptoms.

[KoKo]

After my VEP on Friday I have an appointment at one of the demyelinating disease neurologist (sort of like MS specialist I think) and if she can explain what's up with the 5% of people with MS with normal MRI's and exclude me from that small percentage at least it's a step forward into finding the root of all these chronic progressive neurological symptoms.

Good for you.

Good luck - hope your appointment goes well.

Please let us know what you find out. Thank you.

Take Care

[SNOOPY]

Many, many, many years ago a test for MS was the hot bath test. You would be put in a tub of hot water and when you got out if you could not walk you were diagnosed with MS. Thank goodness for newer technology.

I am unable to take hot baths, lay out in the sun, or use a sauna, I can exercise but need time to recover before I am able to do anything. If I overheat I have (more) difficulty walking and need to sleep for awhile. This can happen in as little as 5 minutes. When I was 16 I would go out on the patio and sunbath. Within a few minutes I would need to come in and take a nap.

After my VEP on Friday I have an appointment at one of the demyelinating disease neurologist (sort of like MS specialist I think) and if she can explain what's up with the 5% of people with MS with normal MRI's and exclude me from that small percentage

I am one of those rare (5%) cases that was diagnosed with MS without MRI evidence. I received a clinical diagnosis based on symptoms, Neurological exam, and a Positive Lumbar Puncture. I was diagnosed within 3 months and remained in a severe exacerbation during the entire time.

Receiving a diagnosis nowadays without meeting the McDonald Criteria is even more rare.
https://www.nationalmssociety.org/Sy.../Diagnosing-MS

[karenin08]

Many, many, many years ago a test for MS was the hot bath test. You would be put in a tub of hot water and when you got out if you could not walk you were diagnosed with MS. Thank goodness for newer technology.

I am unable to take hot baths, lay out in the sun, or use a sauna, I can exercise but need time to recover before I am able to do anything. If I overheat I have (more) difficulty walking and need to sleep for awhile. This can happen in as little as 5 minutes. When I was 16 I would go out on the patio and sunbath. Within a few minutes I would need to come in and take a nap.



I am one of those rare (5%) cases that was diagnosed with MS without MRI evidence. I received a clinical diagnosis based on symptoms, Neurological exam, and a Positive Lumbar Puncture. I was diagnosed within 3 months and remained in a severe exacerbation during the entire time.

Receiving a diagnosis nowadays without meeting the McDonald Criteria is even more rare.
https://www.nationalmssociety.org/Sy.../Diagnosing-MS

But my neurological exam was alright with the exception of the Hoffman sign that they say it's seen in healthy individuals.

My symptoms now also include weakness in the left leg. Maybe my next neurological exam will be abnormal but I doubt it. Had one done 1 month ago.

So you say that the chances of having MS in spite of normal brain and spine MRI's and normal neurological exam is below the 5%?

I ask you this because no neurologist wants to make the lumbar puncture because they do not suspect MS altgough my symtopms are of MS, are progressive and other causes have been ruled out (with the exception of back minihernias)

[SNOOPY]

There is a small percentage of people who receive a confirmed diagnosis of MS without MRI evidence. Those diagnosed without lesions is 5% which makes receiving a diagnosis without MRI evidence quite rare, especially since The Revised McDonald Criteria.

a normal MRI does not absolutely rule out MS. About 5% of people, who are confirmed to have MS on the basis of other criteria, do not show any lesions in the brain on MRI. These people may have lesions in the spinal cord or may have lesions that cannot be detected by MRI.
https://www.nationalmssociety.org/Na...asic-Facts.pdf

Symptoms are subjective. What is needed is objective evidence based on the Neurological exam and testing that would indicate there is something Neurologically wrong. You don't appear to have this so a diagnosis of MS would not be made.

Without objective evidence it is understandable a Lumbar Puncture(LP) would not be done. The LP is quite invasive and is not conclusive, by it's self, for MS.

Multiple Sclerosis has a very long history of misdiagnosis, for this reason it becomes even more important for a Neurologist to strictly follow the McDonald Criteria.

Information about the misdiagnosis of MS:
read:https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0831163038.htm

[SNOOPY]

they do not suspect MS altgough my symtopms are of MS, are progressive and other causes have been ruled out (with the exception of back minihernias)

There is no symptom exclusive to MS. Other conditions can have similar symptoms as those seen in MS including your multiple herniations.

Other conditions that can mimic symptoms of MS:
https://www.nationalmssociety.org/Sy...ns-to-Rule-Out

Herniated disc — A disc that acts as a cushion between the vertebrae (bones) of the spine can deteriorate with age – moving or slipping out of place (referred to as ‘herniated’). A herniated disc places pressure on the nerves in the area, producing neurologic symptoms.

You are focusing on having MS when you have a very real problem (herniated discs) that can account for your symptoms.

[pennstater]

I do suffer from heat sensitivity. It doesn't resolve quickly for me. It seems to take at least an hour.

As MRI machines get more powerful, I think it will be rarer to get a diagnosis without lesions. Some people experienced a jump in lesions the first MRI in 3T compared to 1.5T. In a flare - no, just that the 3T picked up smaller lesion load not visible in 1.5.